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gathering and troop inspection. >> the pentagon pulled out all stops and panetta, the defense secretary, started putting out these dire numbers, 800,000 civilian jobs at the pentagon furloughed, 20% cut in pay after he gave a very angry speech at georgetown university, within hours the panic, they put out there will only be one aircraft carrier in the persian gulf and is a big issue for the republicans. >> there's not enough, is there? >> there's been two there the past two years. chris: again, the president wants to go big picture and talk big picture and he's confronted with this. >> it's a big issue for the house republicans because there's a big division there. you've got some of the tea party conservatives saying you know what, this is the best we'll get on cuts so we're going to eat the defense cuts because the cuts are shared across the board. and there are lots of republicans, i believe, including the house speaker, who don't believe that. chris: you believe there's enough republicans who are not far right. >> it's not going to happen and i think that this gets us back to the ma
spending. watch what happens and we lose a lot of pentagon jobs. a lot of people out of work. stop by and stores closed, supporting organizations and some contractors are out of work. who gets blamed, president or republicans in congress? >> in the end i think the president. we americans under this habit of thinking i think the presidents have too much -- deserve too much for a good economy and too much blame for a bad economy. what a president does is pretty important but not as important as sometimes other factors. chris: if we have a shutdown or second recession or something like it, double dip, who gets hurt? >> republicans believe your theory, michael, it's the president. the buck stops with him. fundamentally -- >> chris: he's the one scared of this sequester more than anybody it seems. >> but at the same time they also know this is a republican party with the 24% approval rating going against a president with the 50-something percent approval rating. when it's the battle of the bully pulpit versus people with a 24% approval rating, bully pulpit can be very effective. chris:
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